Presented by Dan Cook of Nadex and Travis McGhee of OptionsANIMAL
Video Transcription
Travis: All right folks, this is Travis McGhee here with OptionsANIMAL. I want to welcome everyone. It’s a pleasure to be with you once again for one of
our special educational webcast that we do periodically here with OptionsANIMAL.
I’m actually talking with you today from beautiful Jackson Hall, Wyoming. Greg Jensen, our founder and myself were up here as part of the Rocky Mountain
Economic Summit this week. If you were tuned in Bloomberg, CNBC, Fox Business. you’re probably going to see a couple of interviews going on throughout the
next couple of days with some of the folks who were here with us.
We got a couple of Fed governors Charles [Plasa] and Jim Bullard here with us. David Kotok, the Chairman of Cumberland Advisors; Paul MacAulay, one of the
original managing directors and founders of [Hankosis 00:00:51]. Really interesting minds up here just talking about the current market which has been
interesting nonetheless.
It’s been exciting especially for you Options traders. I just want to thank you once again for being with us. Taking time out of your day to join us to
talk about an interesting topic in the market as it pertains to Options and certainly a mysterious one.
We did this webinar … it was about two months ago for the first time. I’ve got a good friend in the industry, Dan Cook; who’s one of VPs over with Nadex
and Nadex for those who do not know is the North American Derivatives Exchange. You’ve probably seen a number of their commercials and advertisements on
various media outlets. Again, CNBC, Fox Business, you name it. There are out there quite a bit.
Again folks, these are Nadex is an exchange. It is not necessarily a broker; it’s an exchange certainly following under some of the regulatory bodies out
there.
What I wanted to do and similar to what we did two months ago. I know a lot of folks missed it and were a little bit bumped out, so I wanted to offer it
out to our community. Again, for those of you who don’t know about OptionsANIMAL. I know we have quite a few new folks with us.
Folks, OptionsANIMAL … again, we’re time apart of … we’re a comprehensive educator in the options and stock market space. We get folks started and
understanding how to trade the stock market, enter the stock market as absolutely beginners.
Folks who have never had any connection with the stock market before, we get folks started and we also have programs that benefit the most advanced Option
traders. There’s a number of us here in the organization including myself that were floor traders at one point in time and have worked with a number of
large derivatives trading desks and we brought out expertise in OptionsANIMAL to create a comprehensive educational program.
We’ll talk a little bit about that as we go on, but what I want to do today is again, I want to spend the majority of our time talking about Nadex and
talking about Binary Options. Again, like I said this cloud of mystery over this product, and I thought no one better than Dan Cook who has a ton of
experience with this product to bring in his expertise, enlighten us and answer some of our questions about what Binary Options are as well as how we can
incorporate Binary Options into our current trading plan.
Again, whether you’re trading equity options or whether you’re just trading straight equities or futures. How can we utilize Binary Options as a part of
that trading plan.
Without further ado, Dan, I want to go ahead and bring you into the conversation here. We’d like to talk a little bit about yourself and then get us
started.
Dan: That sounds good. I appreciate the introduction Travis and it’s always good to work with you guys and part of this group because with the education
that you’ve put together and where the goals are for the firm, it just really aligns and it’s a much needed part in the industry education as I know
there’s probably some people that are very new to the markets as well as some people who’ve been around.
The one thing that always attracted me to markets was you never stop learning. Every day it’s a little bit different. You continue to improve but every
single day, there will never come a point in your life, which I think is fantastic where you just have it all down.
The markets can be very challenging. Obviously they’re unbiased and it doesn’t matter whether you have a fifth grade education or whether you have 17
different letters behind your name from all of your degrees. The markets don’t care.
That’s one of the beautiful things about the markets. Also one of the reasons why when I look at Nadex because a lot of different contracts to trade out
there and each one has its own time and unique principles. As Travis mentioned, there are quite a few things with Binary Options that are mysterious so to
speak and there’s been some things in the industry that not all Binary Options are created equal.
What we’re going to talk about today is what Nadex offers on the Binary Options front. As Travis mentioned, Nadex is an exchange. We’re regulated by the
CFTC and based here in the States and Chicago.
I’m obviously biased now because I’m working at Nadex, but even before I came to Nadex and I started looking into these contracts. The first when I started
looking at Binary Options, it was 2007. It’s been a long time and there was nothing out there in the industry and over the last couple of years, we’ve seen
this really blossom.
It’s really getting a lot of traction and hopefully for a lot of the reasons we’ll talk about today and that’s in the ability for really anybody to trade
that. Real quick on Nadex being the exchange. Why we’re unique is that we’re really the first exchange that’s geared towards the individual, the active
individual trader.
Whereas you might have found on other exchanges particularly if you’ve traded futures or some other contracts, they’re all geared for the large
institutions; the big money players. They can really move the market on the contracts.
A lot of people even on the equity side day trading rules that are in place can prohibit that person that really wants to be active can be very prohibitive
to getting in whether it will be the amount of capital you have to have initially or to put up in margins or whether it just be position risk.
Where Nadex looks to fill that void is to actually be specifically designed with all of our contracts for the active individual trader. We’ll take a look
at one of the contract types we offer is the Binary Options.
I just let you know, I like to keep these things interactive and conversational. I don’t think anybody likes to hear me drawn on and on, flip through
PowerPoint slides, so if you do have questions, I think I’ll be able to see them on my side, if not maybe Travis can stop me at certain times. With that,
let’s get into it.
Thank you again, Travis. It’s great to be here. We’re just going to talk a little bit about Binary Options. It’s going to be a pretty high level
introduction. This will by no means make you an expert trader on Binary Options but it should give you a little bit of taste for what they’re.
Whereas we’re going to take a look at a volatility strategy that a lot of people employ when they’re just looking big moves in the market but they don’t
really know which direction it’s going head, and we’ll have plenty of time for questions at the end as well.
Before we get started though, obviously quick risk disclosure. Anytime you’re trading, this has future slopes and options but whether you’re trading
equities or equity options. Whatever you’re trading, there is risk, and it may result in financial loss. Hopefully we all understand that.
All of the trading we’re talking about, this is a key part to trading is actually taking that responsibility for our actions. This is educational, so I’m
going to be looking at a few examples today. Please don’t take that as an indication that I’m telling you to go out and place a trade on oil if we look at
that or the ES or whatever it is.
One thing you will notice that might be a little bit difference from our disclaimer, anybody that’s traded leveraged market where you can lose more money
than you put up, that’s not possible with Nadex.
Everything we’re going to be talking about is limited to risk. Whether you’re buying or selling. With that, let’s get into Binary Options.
I used to say actually there’s only two things wrong with a Binary Option and that’s the term Binary and the term Option. A lot of mystery and really
Binary just to laid it out most of you know this. Keep it in its simplest form; it’s yes or no, true or false, zero or one. There’s two outcomes at
expiration. We’ll talk about that. That’s why it’s called Binary.
The term Option; this is obviously with OptionsANIMAL. A lot of you understand Options. A lot of you might be getting into them and I love Options. I’m by
no means the best Options trader in the world and I like them because they can be extremely fascinating. There’s a lot that can go into trading an Option.
I’m seeing all the Greeks and all different types of strategies. In some cases they can be a little bit intimidating, so some might look to a Binary Option
actually as a more simplified way. I call them Options for the Non-Options trader, which is a bit of a misnomer because a lot of Option traders also
gravitate to these in certain instances.
Basically, what a Binary Option is a short term limited risk contract whether you’re buying or selling, you know your risk up front. It’s basically a
statement in its simplest form. There’s an underlying market. On Nadex, we have I think 32 different underlying markets.
It could be crude oil, it could be the emini index future, it could be gold, it could a currency pair but it always contains an underlying market. In this
case we’ll say crude oil. Then there’s a condition or strike price. If we’re looking at it today, we might see a strike price of greater than $105, and
then an expiration date in time just like an Option. When does it expire?
Let’s say it’s a 2.30pm either today or a future date. Our Binary and we’ll take a look at some more tickets would be crude oil; greater than $105 at
2.30pm.
If I decide that I think it’s going to true if oil’s going to be greater than $105, I might be a buyer. If I think that it’s going to be less than that,
I’d a seller. We’ll take a look at this in more detail in just a bit.
Whether I’m buying or selling, this particular binary option, it’s always capped. The reason it’s capped is Binaries trade within a range of 0 to $100. At
expiration, that statement up there; crude oil greater than $105 is going to either be true and it’s going to settle at $100 or it’s going to be false and
it’s going to be settled at zero.
That’s one of the reasons why a lot of people refer to these as all or nothing Options. I really hate that term not because it’s not true. It is. At
expiration, they’re all or nothing.
From a trader perspective, we are not always looking just to get locked in to the all or nothing. It ranges between 0 and $100, and what we can do on the
Nadex Binary Option is actually trade in and trade out.
We’ll take a look at a few of those examples. It might help to think of them as a true or false statement. Either the event’s going to happen or it’s not.
If it’s true, it settles at $100. If it’s false, it’s settles at 0.
The price in between 0 and $100, and its $1 per point on all Nadex ex-contracts, so it’s $100 total contract value. You can think of the price actually is
what the market is saying the probability of that event occurring is.
When we get into the charts, I think this will make a little bit more sense but I just wanted you to start thinking true or false and then percentage
probability.
Again, similar to traditional Options because I have a lot of the same characteristics. Time and volatility are factored into the price. Just as a general
rule of thumb, when we’re looking … let’s say that we got eight hours left on a Binary Option. If we’re at or around the strike price.
In the case of crude oil at $105 and it’s trading right there, it got to trade somewhere around the center of 0 to $100. Around maybe a $48 bid, $52 offer
something like that. It’s going to gravitate towards the middle, so it’s right at the strike price.
Time and volatility though, let’s say it was … oil was trading at $104. The probability might be lower but if there’s high volatility and a lot of time, it
might shift the probability a little bit, and we’ll take a look at how this looks on a chart looking at the yellow line.
Again, I want to stress you don’t have to wait for expiration to close a position. Actually what a lot of times we like to look at are one’s that give us a
very low cost of entry but actually have quite a bit of upside.
Just as an example here, this is the US500. This particular contract is based on the ES contract traded on SME. That’s our underlying market. When we’re
doing analysis on these Binary Options, we always want to use a chart of the underlying market. The reason being that’s what going to drive the price of
the Binary not vice versa.
In this case, if the US500 underlying emini S&P traded on the SME, the September contract. At this time the condition was greater than 1377, it expired
at 4.15pm. I really should update this because it’s a year old now 19th July 2012.
This particular Binary; there’s our condition. Underlying month of September. We’re looking at this right now; I can tell you that the market’s probably
trading well below that strike. The reason I can say that is because right now it’s the bit of 2250 off, proof $26, so the market’s telling me there’s a 24
¼% chance if I just take the midpoint there of that event happening.
I can buy or sell, it’s always limited to risk on either side. If I’m a buyer of this contract, I’m putting up $26 per contract plus a small exchange fees.
We can go into those in a little bit.
Basically, my full risk, my worst case scenario if I buy this contract is an outcome of zero. Now, the market can do anything it wants after expiration.
This could actually go down to zero but I’m never stopped out. My risk is always kept by the floor and ceiling. I don’t have to worry about a stop. The
market can whipsaw, it can do whatever it wants, I can still remain in that trade.
Effectively what I’m doing is buying myself time for the market to move. In this case though I put up $26. If we go down here and this is one thing that
you’ll see, before you ever get into a trade, before you place your order it tells you your maximum loss as well as the maximum profit. In this scenario,
I’m basically looking if I buy this putting up $26 with a maximum potential of $74 or just about a 3:1 risk reward settled at $100.
Again, we had that risk reward 0 to $100, $100 total value per contract. Again, if I’m buying my collateral I put up is the difference between where I buy
in this case it was 26 and zero. If I’m selling, my worst case scenario is $100, so I’m going to put up the collateral upfront.
It doesn’t matter if World War II breakout unlike if I’m let’s say I’m just selling a naked put. World War III breaks out; I can get killed on that pretty
quick. I might not be able to get out of it. With a Binary, I already know what my predefined upfront risk is.
No matter what happens in the world, a Fed announcement, geo-political events. Who cares, I know my maximum risk and that’s one of the reasons why there’s
no margin calls on the exchange. I can never lose more money than I put up for a trade, so I can buy defaults since I have to put it up before I place a
trade, I can never lose more money than I have in my account.
Again, if we take a look at this and this is just to give you a little bit of a graphic on how it looks. On the left hand side is the buyer. On the right
hand side is the seller. If the buyer places the trade at $26, the red on the left represents the maximum risk. The green, maximum reward.
On the other side, the seller who basically might be selling it at $26 if the trade is matched. Buyer $26, seller $26 is putting up $74 in collateral. It
will always equal $100, so there’s no actual counter party debit risk with the exchange. It’s what’s called fully collateralized. Buyer puts up $26, seller
puts up $74. The exchange clearing house holds the full $100 until the contract is offset or expires.
If we look at it another way considering it true and false and we took the midpoint, we could say; there’s about a 24% chance of this happening. Now, the
seller it could be another member, it could be a market maker might be saying; I’m putting up $74 to make $26 but I really believe there’s only about or
maybe they’ve done some type of analysis, they believe there’s only a 10% chance of that event happening. They’re willing to take what they believe is the
market edge to sell the contract at that level.
Hopefully this is making a little bit of sense and if it’s not yet I think it will when we start looking at the actual price of a Binary versus the time
and the underlying market.
Again, we’re thinking about our probabilities, so …
Travis: Hey Dan, can I hop in for one second?
Dan: Yeah, sure thing.
Travis: No worries Dan, I just wanted to jump in with a question real quick and I think you brought up a good point earlier that I really want to stress to
some of the folks out there and that is the often this perception that with Binary … and I think a lot of this is just created through some of the Binary
brokers you see out there. I don’t want to say some of the folks that have given the industry a bad name, but that Binaries are an all or nothing product.
You buy into it, you have to sit and wait till expiration.
Whereas I think you’ve made a point there that with Binaries and this is something that Jennifer actually asked. She wanted to make sure that she
understood you correctly that with Nadex and the Binaries that you trade at Nadex, this is a trading instrument. You can trade in and out of this at any
point in time.
I apologize if you’re going to get more into this but I just wanted to clarify that.
Dan: Yes, definitely. That’s a great point. Go ahead you can talk about the other shops that’s giving the industry a bad name because they have. Then SEC
and the CFTC have taken action against several of them but on a lot of these other shops, the online platform that aren’t true exchanges, not regulated in
the US.
As a regulated entity, we have a lot of rules that we have to follow. Obviously we’ve seen a lot of that in depth Frank and all these things and we always
have to stay in compliance with those rules.
Unfortunately, a lot of the other shops don’t and what they’ll see is really an unfair you’re basically trading against the house on those other shops.
They’re taking a big house edge as well as once you get into a contract on almost all cases with those shops you’re locked in.
You don’t have any transparency or visibility into settlement. Where Nadex is really different and is one the big ones, you can trade in and trade out. If
I buy a Binary at $5. Let’s say I’m doing it in front of a non-farm payroll report and I’m expecting a big move in the market, I might buy a one Binary at
$5 and if the market starts heading towards true, it doesn’t have to get to true.
That’s something I want to stress. If it goes from $5 and the probability the market moves towards the strike, the probability will increase that it’s
going to happen, so if I buy at $5 and I might set a limit order out. If it hits $30, I can close out my trade either a full or partial position.
Additionally, if it does go to settlement and you have a question about the settlement price. Here’s where the transparency comes in and when Nadex is
different as an actual true exchange, we’ll provide the price in time at how we came up with the settlement data so there’s transparency.
Additionally, because we’re an exchange and there are market makers like every other exchange, every member can be a market maker on their own meaning you
don’t have to take the price that’s bid or offer. You can trade in between those levels. What that allows people to do is they’re also anonymous to whoever
the other side of the trade is.
The other side never knows who they are whereas a lot of the other shops that are running basically the book of business, they know who everyone is. I
don’t want to accuse of anything but it may or may not be a fair environment. Whereas an exchange we’re absolutely unbiased. We have to be. We don’t care
which side gets the 100 and which side gets the zero. From a personal opinion I wish everybody could make money but I understand it is a zero sum game and
not everyone can on every trade.
You have both the transparency as well as the ability trade in and out the safety I guess of regulation as well as the anonymity to the person on the other
side of the trade. They don’t know who you are, they don’t know if you’re opening your position or closing another one.
It really creates a fair level playing field. That’s what we’re interested in for the individual trader. If we have some time at the end we can talk about
some other steps we take to keep a fair playing field when we talk more about the high frequency trading and some things that go on at other exchanges that
we don’t allow at Nadex.
Thank you Travis. That brings up a great point. Hopefully what I said makes sense. I rumbled there for a minute. One thing with the Binary you’ll see is
that it doesn’t have to necessarily move in linearity with the underlying market. We’ll talk a little bit about delta. If you need Options and you haven’t
really started on the grid set, don’t worry about that. We’ll explain it through the price of a Binary Option. Time to expiration and volatility do have an
impact.
We’ll take a look at that particularly because what I said a little bit earlier. Here’s the EURUSD contract. It doesn’t matter what this underlying is.
This is just going to be an illustration. If you’re trading the emini S&P. if you’re trading whatever the case may be crude, it’s going to be the same.
A chart is a chart. What we’re going to be looking at specifically is the strike price. This strike price is the green line on the screen. The chart is not
a chart of the Binary Option.
I want to stress this again. This is a chart actually of the EURUSD spot price. That’s what we want to do an analysis on. Is the underlying market not the
Binary. What we want to do is take a look at how the underlying market moves and how it impacts the price of a Binary. For example here, if we look at that
red circle on the left side of the screen, the underlying price is over the green line. Any time it’s over that price the probability is going to be
greater that the event is going to happen.
It’s probably going to trade over 50. When the underlying market in this case was greater than 145. We see a bid offer of 54.58. As the market moves down,
again what happens? The probability shifts. Now it’s below the strike price. Obviously just thinking about it logically, is the probability greater or
lower that it will be over 145 at expiration? Obviously it’s lower. Now we might see a bid offer of 42.46.
If I wanted to trade this I could say, I want to buy this contract at 46 or I might say if it continues to drop I might try to put a buy in at 44 and see
if anybody takes the other side. As the markets continues to move we see that the Binary continues to shift. In this case actually price is closer if we
look at where it say 34.38 price, underlying price is about the same if not a little bit closer to the strike price. What we’ve seen is there’s less time,
because there’s less time, there’s less time for that contract to turn true.
Even though the market didn’t really move from those two points the probability of that event occurring became less. We see that impacted in the price. The
market all of a sudden makes a bit of a rally moves back up. If I bought this contract at 38 to get back our previous plan on trading out, if I’ve bought
this contract at 38 I have a few things I can do. I can wait and see if I get lucky and it settles at 100 or I can set a limit. Maybe I set a limiter out
there. Maybe I bought 10 contracts and I want to set a limit order at 65.
If I set a limit order at 65 and the market moves up like this, I get filled a half or whatever I put on, the full partial position. The market can’t trade
through. It’s a true exchange environment. If I have a limit order sitting at 65 the market can never 72.76 without filling my order because at some point
I’m going to be the best bidder offer depending on which side I’m taking. Maybe I have five contracts, let’s say I have 10 contracts on I bought at 38. I
just hit my limit on five so I’ve got five going. The market is at 72.76.
The market drops that down to 22.26. Again we can start as we approach expiration, see it get really there. I still have five contracts on. The probability
is now much lower than what it was. Now I’m taking a loss on the remaining five contracts. I don’t have to just get out for profit. I can also manage my
risk. Even though I know my maximum risk buying at 38 is 38 points per contract. My worst case scenario is zero.
If it starts to go against me and I’m convinced I was wrong I can close out early to limit my losses. For instance, I already took profit let’s say at 65,
I could close off the remaining five either at 22 or 20, whenever I want to get out. I’ve got to put my order out there and see if somebody takes it on the
other side. I can limit my losses as well. I can actively trade these in and out or I can wait since I already took profit on the one. I could sit and wait
and see what the other five do. In this scenario maybe you wouldn’t want to. If it’s over the strike price at expiration, once it expires I can’t do
anything.
Expiration hits, that’s it. The contract settles both sides. If it’s over the strike it settles at 100, if it’s under it settles at zero. Also if it’s
directly on the strike price, this happens occasionally. It’s rare but we do an average to prevent market manipulation, meaning it’s not just one ticket;
it’s not the closing ticket that time. It’s actually an average of 25 trade prices which keeps somebody in the underlying market from the manipulating the
binary settlement.
If it’s right on that strike price, meaning 145000, you actually go out one decimal point past the precision of the underlying market. If it settles right
on, it’s a false. It was not greater than. There’s never just an even payout. It’s always true or false at expiration. Let’s take another look at one. This
is one I really want to stress because often times when people see binary options they say, “It’s easy. I’m just going to buy at 95 every time and I’m
always guaranteed it’s going to settle at 100 and I’ll just pick up five points.” Not always the case.
I’ve seen it work exactly the opposite direction. What we’re looking at here is actually a tick chart on the pound dollar. This chart, at this point in
time the pound dollar was trading at about 15600. Again this could be the ES, this could be anything. What I want to stress to you is as it approaches
expiration because this very much key. If we walk backwards first, remember the expiration is going to be either 100 or it’s going to be zero.
If you think about a minute before expiration, if something is trading right around that strike price, the difference between point one tick in the
underlying market could make the difference between zero and 100. As we approach expiration maybe 15, 20 minutes out, if the underlying market is … We’ll
take a look in this example is trading right around that the binary option price could be swinging.
There’s a couple of terms that are coined here called exponential delta whereas in the traditional option you have a delta of negative one or to one if you
get that range. With the Binary Option you can have exponential delta. We’ll show it on the screen a second or exploding gamma. This is really a gamma
play. We’ll take a look at that here. We’ve got similar concept as before the green line represents the strike price. This chart is 15 minutes long. If you
traded currencies before you know that 10, 15 pip swing is not a big deal.
This whole chart is about 18 pips. It would be the equivalent of a few ticks in the S&P or even one tick a few ticks in the SMP. Here we’ve got again,
the red dot, the red circle represents the underlying price in relation to the strike price, the green line and then the bid offer. We’ve got 32.36. All
over sudden, boom the market pops up, in a minute and a half this binary is trading at 68 72. Drops back down. Now it’s trading at 20.24.
As you can see the underlying market in this cases, the underlying market is only moved mean total about six or seven pips over the course of about in this
case about six and a half, seven minutes . We’ve seen it go from 32.36, 68.72, 20.24. Comes back up right at the starting price 48, 52, 19, 23. Before I go
any further this is where I want to stress. If you’re trading this, understanding how quickly this can move, it should both be a cautionary tale as well as
a tale of opportunity.
A cautionary tale first because I firmly believe in stressing the risk in the market before anything else. As Amos Hostetter said take care of your risk
the profit takes care of itself. 19.23, if it’s trading at 95 10 minutes before expiration, how far is it from the actual strike price? This is only a tick
or two. I only need a one tick move before that goes to zero. I might not want to buy that at 95. However, if I look at one and let’s say 10 minutes before
expiration I can sell it at 95 and the market only has to move two ticks then I have a very low risk, high reward possibility.
When we take a look at this, let’s say for example if I bought this at 23, all over sudden a minute and a half later this binary because now it’s shot
about six ticks, seven ticks over the strike price the underlying market has. Now it’s 94.99. To get back to the previous example, I could be a buyer,
maybe I try to buy the … First of all, it will make no sense to buy a binary at 99 by the time you pay the exchange fees it’s just not worth it.
If I was buying it at 95 it can change quick. This whole chart really was only about a little less than 15 minutes in time. We say some pretty massive
fluctuations. One other thing, if you’re trading around news events, let’s say the non-farm payroll or Fed announcement. A Fed announcement is another big
one. Particularly the more they’re talking about unwinding what may happen in the market. If I get into the trade my next action I want to do is set a
limit order to take profit.
If I’m going to sit there and manually try to select my price and click I’m probably going to miss it. If I’m getting close to expiration either a full or
a partial … Let’s say I bought this order at 23 be there about the midpoint in the screen and all over sudden it’s up 94.99 I’m feeling pretty happy but
all over sudden I’m trying to click on vapor because this binary is whipping around and all over sudden I can’t get out, all over sudden it’s a zero now
I’m not feeling so good.
Why would I not get greedy with any market? You don’t want to be greedy. Why wouldn’t if I get in a 23, let say I took three 10 contracts? Maybe I take
seven off if it hits 75, 80, or 85. Wherever I determine it may go it gives me an opportunity with very low risk. I hope that makes sense on how volatile
this can become particularly towards expiration. Well the cost in retail and one of opportunity. Before we get into strike price I want to check in, see if
there’s any questions.
Hopefully I’m not just confusing the heck out of people right now. We’ll take a look at some strike prices and then a quick strategy and then we’ll have
some time for more questions.
Travis: I’ll keep rolling then.
Dan: Travis just stop me any time there are. One of the big differences also that you see with Nadex are the strike prices. This is a tradable instrument.
If you look at other platforms that may be out there you basically got one strike, no transparency with underlying and you say, is it going to be higher or
lower in whatever time frame they say. No visibility into it whether it is or not even at expiration. Very difficult to trade if you really want to be a
trader and all you’re doing is taking one set thing higher or lower and you already that the odds are stacked against you from ever been successful.
With Nadex all those multiple underlying markets, multiple timeframes and multiple strike price. We’ll get in the way this is important. There are times
where we publish a range of strike prices when the contracts are listed. If there is extreme market volatility our job is to keep a tradable market that
matches buyers and sellers. If we get really big volatility we’ll add more strikes. The people can have opportunity whether they’re long or short to
possibly find a trade.
I say possibly not probably or for sure because there’s no guarantees. Possibly find a trade that falls in line with what they’re looking to, their trading
plan and their strategy. If there’s extreme volatility and they go outside the ranges we’ll add more strikes. This is the US500. Let me give them a
highlight or a spotlight out her real quick and go through this. We’ve got our strike prices. In this case the underlying was the emini S&P trade on
the SME.
We have strike prices from the bottom of 11.18 all the way up to 11.75. Why the range of strike prices? In this case is in three point increments. This
allows me to do and we can see we’ve got about a good size of about 250 contracts out. When we look at the bit offers and one thing you’ll get used to as
you start trading binary options you’ll be able to tell right away where the underlying markets are. All you have to do is find the one that’s closest to
the 50/50 level. It will never be 50/50 because there’s always going to be a good offer spread.
Let’s say it was 48/52, I will know that the underlying market is trading right around that level. In this case we’ve got a 50 then 54.50. I know the
underlying market is just slightly above 11.54. I know it’s below the 11.57 because the probabilities are lower for these events happening. I can trade. I
can buy any of these. I can sell any of these depending on what my strategy is, what my risk reward ratio that I’m accepted to take on.
It really gives a lot of flexibility. What we can do and what I’ve done is I’ve taken this underlying chart. This is an underlying chart US500 or the ES.
If I think the market is going up I can buy any of these strike prices. Basically I’m saying I think it might be true or at least it’s going to head
towards true. The probabilities are going to get greater if I’m a buyer that it’s going to happen. I think the market is going to go up. Ambush on the
market.
If I’m a buyer here and I’m buying any of these I can say, “I think I want to buy this one at 23.50.” Understanding though if, let me highlight this real
quick, if I’m looking and let’s say that right in over here at 11.60, let’s say I see a point of resistance at 11.59, I may not want to take that binary if
I’m using my technicals. I may not want take that binary because I’m already saying the market could bounce down off that. Maybe I take the lower one and
try to get it, get a little bit less reward if potential but probabilities being what they are, I’m willing to take that.
We always want to look at our analysis depending on what analysis you’re using you can select different price levels that you want to look to trade your
binaries on. Earlier I said, if I think the market is going to go up another side is if it’s already over the strike prices, I don’t even need the market
to go up. All I need to do is for the market to remain where it’s at or go higher. For example, if the market remains where it’s at and I have this price
at 65, as time decays less time for it to drop below, my binary even if the underlying market is absolutely, flat my binary is going to still gain in
value.
A binary could be thought of as a single leg option spread. If I’m a buyer and price is above the strike it’s in the money. If I’m the seller 61 it’s out
of the money. There’s two sides to the binary. If I buy at 65 and it remains just straight flat, it’s going to finally at expiration have to settle at 100
if the market hasn’t moved lower. Even if it’s not moved at all. On the other side, let me go back to my cursor here, vice versa on the other side. I can
be a seller of any of these.
If I think the market is going to stay where it’s at, maybe I sell it 20 or 29 thinking time is going to erode to zero or if I think it’s going to drop and
maybe I think it’s going to drop big I could be a seller at 71 or 79.50, whatever the case may be. Again if I’m wrong and this is what I want to stress, if
I’m wrong … Let’s say I sell at 79.50, if all over sudden let’s say there’s five hours left in the price of binary option contract, all of a sudden two
hours later go by and I was expecting a move in the market. Do I really want to wait?
I’ve already decided I was wrong. I expected the market to move and it didn’t. Now maybe that binary that we sold at 79.50 is priced more like, I sold at
79.50 maybe it’s priced at 85 or 90. Why not just get out? Cut my losses. Depending on what it is in your plan you’ve got the ability to do that. You can
cut your losses early. You don’t have to take the full loss. It’s very important to understand that you don’t have to take the full loss because a lot of
successful traders …
Actually one that I’ve worked with a long time ago particularly when I was in the FX market and we were just getting started, he was my mentor told me … At
the time he had been trading about 30 years. He told me the only difference between him and the trader getting in, in these markets, the newer trader was
that he got out of his losing trades faster. He just realized when he was wrong and he didn’t hold on to those losers. Definitely words to live by.
A couple of other strategies. You can use this in conjunction with each other. You can set up spreads, straddles and strangles. If I think the market is
just going to stay flat, I could buy any of these and sell any of these or I could use one or the other to offset a little bit of the risk. One of the
strategies here that we’re going to take a look at … Just realized I’m running a little bit long here but I’ll try to get through this. What if I don’t
know which direction the market is going to go? I think it’s going to go one direction or the other.
I can buy the lower probabilities put up low risk. Sell the higher probabilities on the other side put up low risk for a potential return, set limit orders
on both of them. If the market drops I might get hit my limit on one side. If it climbs I may hit my limit on the other side or if it does a big whipsaw, I
could hit limits on both sides. Again because there’s no stops, I’m never out of the trading till expiration. That’s the strategy we’re can take a look
here in just a moment. Before we get into that one real quick, Travis any questions before I go into this?
Travis: I think we’re good right now. I’ve got a handful of questions some of which you’ve answered Dan with time. I’m going to let you keep going. If you
don’t address some these that I had written down I’ll bring them up at the very end here.
Dan: Sounds good. Let’s get into the strategy then. This is a direction neutral. What I mean by that is I don’t care which direction the market is going. I
just expect it to move. A lot of times particularly people trading the underlying markets, the futures, the forex markets or even options. One thing with
an option there’s a lot of things to consider if you’re trading around the fundamental news announcement what is all of my Greeks combined?
How do I make the money? What’s the probability? What’s the move? Binary option is an option that may simplify that a little bit for you. The underlying
markets futures, currencies, whatever they may be, the leveraged markets; most people will not be trading around those fundamentals from the individual
side. At least most want to stay around. The reason being is trials versus strategies the preannouncement market can whipsaw and just take you right out of
your trade and all of a sudden moves in your favor that was fun. I’m out of the trade.
The principle of binary assets having a limited risk but no stocks. I can never lose more than I got into with is what the strategy is really founded on.
Maybe I’m trading in front of a Fed announcement, non-farm payrolls, CPI, whatever data is coming out, any Central Bank announcement, anything that can
move the market. I’m just expecting it to move either direction wing or big whipsaw. I’m looking for movement the underlying. I know my full risk upfront
with the strategy, very important.
I don’t want to get greedy. These markets can move exceptionally fast and as we’ve pointed out when we were talking about the speed during this expiration,
we want to set reasonable limits. Probably you don’t want to set a limit order at 99 because it’s going to be tough to get filled when you consider new
offer spread. Set reasonable limits based on my trading plan, based what I think … This is when we set it and walk away. I know some people prefer not to
watch every tick.
Some people can’t trade if they’re not watching every tick. You can do either. Here we have, this is the ES. I believe this was a customer, a member sent
me a long time ago, not a long time, a couple of years which is a great example that I use quite often. We’ve worked on this strategy for a while. This was
before news announcement. It was GDP announcement which is another big market mover. When I reloaded this my thing was to get off the market was trading as
we can see by the pricing right around 12.30 on the ES.
We had strikes 12.50 that was currently trading at bid 10, offers 13 and 12.10 87.90 bid offer. Implementing this we might look to sell the 87. Again we’re
expecting a big move. We’re expecting possibly the 87 to go down to like a 50. If the underlying market is 12.10 then 87 is going to shift in price. If
it’s 12.50, it’s going to shift in price. What we’re looking to do and this is how that strategy was set up, for selling 10 at 12.16, greater than 12.16
87, our total risk on that side is 130 bucks.
13 points per contract if we let’s say in this example we settle in and buy at 60 for … We’ll just say we set it for seven contracts. Buy 10 at 12.55. On
that side $13 total risk, 130 bucks, sell them at 40. We’re keeping it pretty symmetrical in this example which is what he did. We always have to follow
our trading plan. If that’s too much risk for us, if that’s too much of our cap size maybe we need to scale back. We did this price section. We put on the
trade. What we see, there was 87.90 on the 12.10. The markets come down; it’s actually slightly below 12.10.
We now have a 47 bid 51 offer which means our limit order at 60 got filled. Let’s say we took seven off on that one which is what I think he did on this
one. We’re still now on our upper one. We’re losing money. We’re at zero, that’s four. There’s no sell opportunity anymore. You never want to sell at zero
because it’s all risk at that point. You could buy at four. What we bought at 13 we can’t even get out of. We’re not stopped out. We might as well hang on
to [00:45:15 inaudible] because the market can rebound.
Maybe we got in a bit ahead of the announcement. Actually this is where the announcement came out. Other side the limit order got hit. Now we’re losing
money on the remaining contracts on the lower but we already filled the limit which is the important part of the limits or and then we’ve still got limits
that just got filled up here. The underlying market goes, it sells at 100. Real quick, I want to run through the scenarios because I’m a firm believer in
not just talking but look at how easy this is.
From a physical standpoint trading can be quite easy. I can look at a screen. I can click a button. Being a successful trader as we all know is a lot more
difficult. We need to have the education. We need to understand risk first and foremost. Let’s take a look at how it went by the scenario. Then also let’s
take a look at a couple of worst case scenarios because I want to be fair and balanced in all of these. The way we went through it, we sold 10 at 87, hit a
limit 60. It ended up selling at 100. The remaining contracts we lost 39 each.
Bought 10 at 13, hit a limit of 7 at 40 for $189 total. Three others, three remained we sold 100 for 261. Basically our net was 600, made 600 lost 39.
That’s a really perfect example. Does it happen in the real world? It does. Will it happen every time? No. Let’s take a look at some other scenarios that
can happen. Again I want to remind, these are not inclusive of trading fees.
There’s an alternative outcome. Let’s say that we hit our limits on both sides within the market fall back to the center and we still have those six
contracts on three long, three short worth $39 on each of those three. In this case we made 378, lost 78 a net of 300. Worst case scenario and this is what
I want to stress because this is important as a trader. What’s my worst case scenario?
My worst case scenario was that I sold 10 at 87, it settled at 100. I bought 10 at 13, they settled at zero. Worst case scenario is $260 position loss and
I knew that going in. One thing I want to mention though again, if we’re wrong, if I’m expecting … Let’s say it’s non-farm payroll on a Friday morning. It
comes out and I sold at 87, bought at 13. The announcement comes out and it’s just as expected, it’s a done, the markets aren’t moving.
I don’t have to sit there and wait to see how it settled. I was wrong. I didn’t get any movement. Maybe the one that I sold at 87, maybe now I can buy that
back at 92 or 93. I can get out of that trade. Any time I’m wrong, if I get in, I don’t have to take my full loss. It’s very comforting knowing my worst
case scenario is $260 no matter what happens. If a big event does happen, it’s probably depending on the range you have.
It’s probably on unlikely sit right in the middle. If it does, if nothing in the event it does cut your losses. You can cut your losses early. Real quick
on a run through what full collateralization means. This is a buyer buying at 33, seller selling at 33, buyer puts up 33, seller puts up 67, that equals
$100 fully collateralized. Neither the buyer nor the seller can default on this contract. There’s no large trader risk as what you see in other terms of
exchanges.
If at the end the buyer and the binary sells at 100 they held it towards expiration, they get the $100 payout. They get a note in their emails saying, it
settled at 100, you get $100, take away the 33 you put up, that’s $67 less exchange fees. If this was one contract, maybe 90 cents in 90 cents on
expirations of $1.80 total exchange fees. The seller in this case gets zero. The seller puts up 90 cents on the entry order but because the contract
settled at zero, they didn’t make any money, there’s no exchange fee on their side.
With that, I want to thank you for listening along with me, for joining me on this one. Hopefully you found it useful. I do like feedback. Try not to be
too mean. I know I’m not the most perfect presenter in the world but I do like constructive feedback. I should put it that way because I’m always trying to
make this better for everybody. One thing I do want to mention is you see our website, we do have demo talks. You can get a two week trial. Go to
Nadex.com. You can contact our customer service if you have questions.
If you get the demos, sometimes two weeks may not be long enough for everybody. I’m one that encourages everybody. If you do open a live account, fund the
live account, you don’t have to trade to that I want to stress on that. If you do have a funded live account you can shoot an email, I’ll extend the offer
12 months. You want to extend it 12 weeks later; I’m one that likes to try a lot of strategies on trading. There’s a demo account to do that. Why risk it
with real money? Particularly if you’re new to this and just getting in, even if you have a funded live account I really don’t want you trading until
you’re comfortable in the markets.
There are no guarantees that you’ll make money. I want you to spend as much time as needed I that demo account to really make sure you have a good handle
on the market. As passionate as I am about Nadex, as beautiful as I think the contracts are designed and I love the risk reward promise particularly the
limited risk side of it, it’s a market. Any time you put money in the market you can lose money. We want to make sure everybody has a good shot at getting
the education they need.
With that I’ll take any questions and then once again really just want to thank everybody for being with us today. It’s always a pleasure to work with
Travis, everybody at OptionsANIMAL.
Travis: Thank you Dan. It’s always great to work with you as well. I do have a couple of questions folks I’m going to get to and have Dan address. After
those folks on the webinar, though before we do go into the questions here I do want to let everyone know as a thank you for joining today’s webinar with
both Dan and myself. We have another special webinar coming up that is going to be on Monday. With this webinar Greg Jensen, the founder of OptionsANIMAL
is going to address trading inside of an IRA. I’m just getting my screen up here. Just bear with me folks.
We’re going to have this webinar again coming up on Monday at 5:00pm Eastern. I have the link up there right now I bet you folks can certainly go and type
in and register for the webinar yourself. If you don’t have pen and paper right now and you can’t get to it, don’t sweat it. We’re sending out an email
that’s going to have the registration link inside of the email for all of you folks to register from your emails. Don’t worry about it if you can’t write
it down right now.
You can always call into our office and we’ll certainly talk to you and get registered. The phone number is right there. Again, this is going to take place
on Monday, a special webinar with Greg Jensen. Again, we’re going to talk about trading inside of your IRA. Not just simply binary option but addressing
certainly equity options as well equities. Some of the strategies that you can implement. A really great webinar just to get you started and understanding
what you’re capable of doing inside of your IRA account.
It’s going to be a great webinar. We’re sending out that email. You might already have it in your email box. If not, it will sometime today that you can
get signed up for that webinar. With that said Dan, I do want to bring up one question. This question was thrown out a few times by a number of people just
asking … There’s two questions here. I’ll start with the first one. That question is, can you address some of the concern around binary options?
Again, we talked about some of the players out there that have been out there for years that have given a bad name for the industry. There’s a lot of folks
who look at binary and say, this is straight up gambling, they’re not regulated etcetera. Can you address some of those concerns for us?
Dan: Certainly. One thing that I’ll give you a clue on how you can typically tell whether it’s a legitimate firm, whether it be a broker or an education
site or any firm in the trading industry. Any time you see any types of promises like it’s easy, make 76% return in an hour. Things like that as just a
rule of thumb just run like crazy when you see those things. Obviously they’re not regulated. If they were they would be shut down by the regulators.
With binary options and when you look at binary options in the other shops, they’re not what I would consider tradable instruments. They are gambling. You
can gamble in any market in the world. I hope all of our goals are to be traders. Gamblers in markets always lose money. With these other shops what their
thing was and we often saw it, this is where the binary options got a bad name and caused a lot of confusion in. These were actually what were offered …
I really don’t like to focus on these shops but to answer the question; these were shops that basically had a house advantage. They would make Las Vegas
blush. It was so bad. The CFTC and SEC actually about a month ago, early June had basically put out an investor advisory. Travis I’m happy to send that
over to you as well to distribute to everybody which clears up a bit. What they were referring to are these off shore shops. Not based in the US, not under
any type of real regulation.
Often times they were based in Cyprus. Basically what it was, it was in form a binary option because either you got paid out or you didn’t. The problem
was, the binary they were offering was basically a coin flip, heads, or tails. Let’s say Travis and I are flipping a coin and I put up a dollar and Travis
puts up a dollar, we flip the coin, he calls heads, well now if you’re playing the game he should probably get both dollars at that point, right? He takes
back his dollar and gets mine.
What these shops were doing was basically saying, you can make 76% or 71% an hour. That sounds really good. What was happening was you were basically
flipping a coin. You’re flipping a coin and instead of you put up a dollar, he puts up a dollar, the house puts up a dollar, you get both dollars at the
end. No, you got your dollar back and got paid out 76 or 71 cents. If you lost they got both dollars. There was a huge spread in there. You had to be right
at least 65% of the time.
In most cases depending on what the payout variable was in order to even come close to breaking even. It was a very unfair advantage. The one thing they
did well, they were very sleek in how they designed their websites it made it very easy. With Nadex I would say the one downside to us as compared to those
and consider it a downside because it’s really a benefit because we list the contracts the way they do. It takes a little bit more time probably to get
used to the platform but what it does it gives you the functionality of trade in, trade out.
You’re trading with somebody that’s regulated in the US and has to answer to the CFTC. All your funds are held in cash in the US. There’s multiple strikes.
You can really find tune your entire trading. What I consider Nadex it’s an actual exchange. It’s a tradable contract. It’s not just a gamble. Does that
answer the question you think Travis?
Travis: No, I think that answers it perfectly. I think that clarifies a lot for us. One of the questions not necessarily pertaining to that but in a sense
it does is we hear it a lot certainly in the equity markets right now and even the equity options, the high frequency trading. Are high frequency trading
shops utilizing the binary option market or are they in the binary option market? Are seeing a lot of institutions …
I know when I was an institutional trader we were using binary options to hedge what we were trading in the futures market, what the equity markets what
position in the equity market as well as the equity option markets. Can you address both of those? I know they’re not exactly the same but …
Dan: Actually they bond pretty well. Two things on that, there are binary options that are offered. You can find sometimes a binary option on the CME, the
CBOE, the Chicago Board Options Exchange. There are well called institutional binary options out there. Exactly what you said Travis, the institutions will
use those to hedge. With Nadex, all of our contracts are geared not toward the institution but towards the active individual trader.
The size where if I’ve got to hedge 1,000 ES mini contracts, I’m not going to look to Nadex to do that because I’d have to do so many of them, they
wouldn’t be viable. I’m happy. I want de-active individual trainer. I don’t want the institutions. On the high frequency side as well. This is where we
like to keep the playing field. For those of you that aren’t as familiar with that term, high frequency trading, basically think of somebody buying speed.
They are putting their servers they call it co location, they’re putting their servers right next to the exchange so they’re getting a speed advantage over
the active individual trader they’re placing lock traits tens of thousands of contracts at a time in microseconds. There’s a big debate going on
particularly since the flash crash on whether this is market manipulation in there. I can say that all of them are, a lot them are but there are definitely
some people out there that are probably not as ethical a lot of them in the industry.
Nadex in our rules, we do not allow anyone to come in as a high frequency shop and cross connect or co-locate with our exchange. Everyone has to come into
us. It doesn’t matter how big they are. Somebody could come in with $100 and become a member of the exchange. Somebody could come in with $10 million
dollars and become a member of the exchange. They all have to access a security internet. That person with $10 million can’t have a speed advantage over
the person sitting at home.
Obviously depending on where they are located and different things but the internet is the internet. It is what it is. We’ve leveled the playing field .The
only exception if somebody is obligated as a market maker. Market makers are actually a class of entities which are obligated to provide liquidity. They
provide a service whereas in odd cases high frequency shops aren’t providing a service. They are there in good times when they can take advantage of the
market but as we saw on the flash crash when it might not be so good they can just pull the plug and all the liquidity is sucked out of the market.
They’re not exactly providing a service. Market makers who have an obligation to make a double sided market and provide a service of liquidity are the only
ones because they are providing that service that can cross connect with the exchange servers and actually have more direct connection. Market makers
aren’t doing it to suck liquidity out of the market or basically take money from the slower connection, less sophisticated trader.
They call them less sophisticated not because they’re not intelligent but because they don’t have $50 million worth of computers sitting there at their
disposal which can analyze every market. Market makers there want to make a double sided market and actually have that obligation to make it. No, we don’t
allow high frequency trading in the respect of the other exchanges out there. I’m happy about that and I will fight till my dying day if anybody even
suggests it, they would have my resignation immediately.
Travis: Got you. I think you brought up one more good point and we’ll wrap up on this. You’ve mentioned that the entry into Nadex number of folks ask this
as well, which is an understandable question with any brokerage firm. You said that you can have as much as $100 to start your account with Nadex. I’d like
you to address that as well as just quickly for some of the folks, what are some of the products they have available to them? I know this is laid out very
nicely on Nadex dot com.
Again if you visit the website it tells you everything about their products which can trace and so forth. If you can just really quickly wrap up Dan and
talk to us a little bit about how to get started with an account, what products are available to folks, and then what types of accounts are available like
individual accounts? Can someone open a retirement account and trade so on and so forth?
Dan: I can run through that pretty quick because I know we’re getting close on time. With Nadex, you can become actually a member because we’re an
exchange. We’re very unique and we actually take members who are the individual traders. It’s not like the Semi where you have to spend whatever $12
million on a seed. You can actually become a member of Nadex with a deposit of $100. That is not an entry fee that is actually your trading capital. You
could use that as collateral to trade.
You don’t have to maintain that level either. The reason we can do that is because it is a limited risk. A lot of people want to come in and maybe they
want to say, I want to see what it feels like just to trade live. Maybe they’ve never traded live before .There’s a different … You can do a lot learning I
guess in the demo but you actually get risk in the market. The real lessons are nearly I guess sometimes harsh, sometimes as valuable.
You can trade a binary for $26. Maybe you want to trade a couple of different binaries, maybe you want to buy one of $26, you can do those within $100.
Often times we’ll see people put in $100 again depending what your trading capital is. You can start very small. You can also put in 1,000 or 10,000 or
50,000 if you like but you have a very low barrier to entry with that. It’s just an online application form, similar to opening up any brokerage account.
It’s probably a five minute online form that you can find at Nadex dot com. From there you can trade binary options and also what we call Bull Spreads.
It’s a terrible name but they’re basically like a vertical spread. In the options role just even simplified a bit further. You can trade those on domestic
stock index futures like the emini S&P, the DOW, the Russell, the NASDAQ as well as international stock index futures, the FTSE, the DAX and the
Nikkei.
As well as commodities; gold, silver, copper, energies, crude oil, natty gas and then a couple of eggs as well. Then currency pairs; Spot FX, things like
the major Paris plus a couple of Yen crosses. To apply, if you want to take a look at it you can apply for a demo account literally in about 30 seconds. If
it takes you 30 seconds I’d be surprised. If you go to Nadex.com underneath our products you can find out more information about all these contracts. There
are some tutorial videos as well as you’ll see a link for demo account.
Just click on that, get your demo assigned and … I have to say I have worked a lot of places and I can’t give our customer service folks enough credit for
the job that they do. They really have the idea that they are here to help which is exactly what we want to do. We’re not designed for the institution and
we realize not everybody comes with 20 years of market experience. We want to keep the fair balanced playing field for the active individuals out there.
That’s our goal.
Travis: That’s some exciting stuff Dan. I can’t thank you enough for taking time with us. We’ve had a lot of folks in our community as well as folks just
coming through our community on webinars like these that have been asking a lot about the mystery of binaries and wanting to learn a little bit more. It’s
always nice having an expert come in and talk a little bit about binaries and removing that cloud of mystery around them. I also want to thank all of you
folks for joining us today.
I know time is important to everyone. We certainly appreciate you taking time to be with us. Don’t forget we have a great webinar coming up on Monday. It’s
free of charge. We’d love nothing more than to have everyone who’s here today sign up and come, spend some time Glen Jensen, trading inside your IRA. Free
of charge. Everybody should have an email in their inbox right now to register for this class. Whatever email you registered for this webinar with you
should have the registration link there.
We look forward to seeing all of you on Monday. Dan I can’t thank you enough. Some really exciting stuff going on over there at Nadex. I was a big fan of
binaries when we were trading institutionally and utilizing these products as a hedging tool. I’m excited to bring this product and at least an
understanding of this product to our community. Thanks again Dan. I really do appreciate it.
Dan: My pleasure. Anytime Travis. Always happy to be here.
Travis: We look forward to doing it again with you here soon. Look forward to see all you folks on Monday. I hope everyone has a great end week, enjoys the
weekend and we’ll see you all next week. Thanks again everyone. We really do appreciate it. Take care.
